Reuben and Alyssa

EP. 12 27 FEB 2021 | 42:43

A Young Graduate's (Unexpected) Career Start in Real Estate

We begin with Alyssa's story on how an educational 'mishap' plunged her into a completely unexpected career. 

We then speak about some of the key challenges she faced in her early years, before exploring some of the 'key' fundamentals that makes a job fulfilling.   

Some topics covered in this episode: 'Ikigai' (Your Reason for Being), the Dunning-Kruger effect, and Gordon Ramsey chopping onions. 

Stay till the end for Alyssa's tips on finding that 'ideal' job, and how to identify the right paths leading up to it pre-graduation. 

Available on



RDReuben is the producer and talkshow host of the Stacked Podcast Series.


AKHaving since graduated 3 years ago from the National University of Singapore (NUS) with a Bachelor of Science (BSc) in Real Estate, Alyssa works closely with the top management in ZACD Group to oversee and execute ongoing company projects. Within slightly less than 2 years, she has had the opportunity to execute company projects across the real estate value chain - from project acquisitions and fund creation to project management, marketing and asset management.


Reuben  0:00  
On today's episode,

Alyssa  0:02  
we say, you know, try not to take your work back home with you. And I find that very true because, you know, if life is only about work, then where's that time to... to go in other areas?

Reuben  0:29  
You're At Home, with Stacked.

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of At Home with Stacked. Today's topic - choosing a career path. You see, some of us might know what we're destined for from the start. But the truth is, most of us don't. Well, I certainly didn't anyway. And really, it just gets more confusing of the countless education paths available, unlimited job availabilities, corporate restrictions, the list is endless.

And if you think about it, this essentially puts us at risk of ending up doing something that we do not completely enjoy, or initially desired, just for the sake of earning a living. 

But is there a way around this? Joining me today is a lovely young lady who's fresh on the scene. Her name is Alyssa and she graduated about three years ago. Ever since then, she's worked for just one company and thoroughly enjoys what she does today. 

On today's show, we learn a little bit more about her background, and we get a sneak peek at her somewhat unexpected real estate career. We also discuss what it means to have a fulfilling job along the way. At the end of the show, she shares some of her thoughts and tips for graduates who are about to start off in their careers. As always, if you like what you listen to, you can hop on to for more of us right after the show.

Alyssa, welcome to the show.

Alyssa  2:02  
Hi, Reuben. Thanks for having me.

Reuben  2:05  
Hey, thanks for joining us. So I think just for the benefit of everyone who's listening in Alyssa and I met when we were shooting a video at The Landmark. So this was about, like a month, two months ago,

Alyssa  2:17  
Two months ago. Yeah,

Reuben  2:19  
Yeah. Two months. And it was actually there that I got to speak to you. And it was there that I also learned that this was actually your first job. But what surprised me was that you had all these massive, massive responsibilities on your shoulders. And what was more intriguing was that this wasn't something that you thought you would be doing, even though you thoroughly enjoy it today. So yeah, maybe just to set up the podcast. Alyssa, if you could share with us a little bit more about your background, you know, like you studied, how do you get to where you are today. And we can just take the podcast from there.

Alyssa  2:58  
Sounds good. So far, for me, I think my education generally was was a very standard route. So secondary school, I studied triple sciences. But I've always loved the arts as well. And then when I went to, to JC, I, because I I still enjoy English. I enjoy history. So I decided to do what you call it as a H1. So which ones are the elective mods. Yeah, so I took that in, in JC.

Yeah. And then, when I was about to graduate, I was exploring future career options, before I chose a university course. So at the start, ours was more inclined towards the humanities like the arts side. Yeah. So after I got my results, I quickly went to apply for, for, for courses. Yeah, and real estate was actually my second choice.

So my first choice was the arts. But actually, a funny story is when I applied for, for the arts, cause in in, in another university, I actually put the wrong course down. So I want I wanted to get English linguistics, but ended up within just English, which, to my horror, I found out there was a literature which I had no, no prior background in. So I remember going for the interview. And then I remember having to take this written test on my favourite literature piece. And, of course, I have never taken literature since like lower secondary. So I had to smoke my way through the essay. Smoked mey through the interview. And somehow I passed. Yeah, and then on the other hand, in another local U, I was offered my second choice real estate.

So now with the option of English Lit, which I have no experience in, and real estate, which I also had no experience in, I decided to talk to some, some of my seniors who who are in the real estate industry. And I found in my conversations that, with them that they thought that real estate was some, some, somewhere where they could, I mean, was just beyond buying and selling houses, you actually learn about urban planning, which is more of the "art side" of real estate.

At the same time, there is a science part where you learn about investments, about real estate analysis. And it kind of piqued my interest. So I figured, okay, since I, I don't think I would, I would really enjoy myself in the future, then why not go for the arts and sciency real estate course, which was quite niche at that time.

So yeah, so I ended up studying real estate in uni. In NUS, and then after I graduated, I was faced with another dilemma of where to go. So yeah, and then long story short, I, I did an internship in my current company, I really enjoyed the experience, and I joined full time to now.

Reuben  6:12  
Very nice, very nice. So between literature and real estate, that's not something that everyone has an opportunity to choose from. But it seems like you made the right choice. Because I mean, you're happy with your job, I mean, we were speaking earlier, and you mentioned that as always, that there's always the good side and the bad sides. But as long as the good sides outweigh the bad, then you know that there is opportunity, you know that this is a place that you want to be at. So on that note, was there perhaps a reason why you decided to join this company?

Alyssa  6:43  
Yeah, something that actually started my interest in joining this company was the youth, the youth ventures department, because how I got to know the company was through my internship. So when I joined, that was also the same year that the management at that time, created this department called the youth ventures department. And their aim was very simple was just forward recruitment for future leadership.

So with this in mind, the management actually intentionally met up with the youths. They did case studies with us to just to just like, I would say, expand our minds to, to global global case studies to do real life industry experiences, and then get asked to talk about it or to share our views. Yeah. And I think besides that you still give us quite a lot of company projects to do is nearing the tail end of the second year, I, I also joined the projects team, which is where I'm currently at. Yeah, and to do a full project management and marketing of a recent development.

Reuben  7:56  
Which was I mean, The Landmark, right, that's

Alyssa  7:58  
That's right. The Landmark. Yeah. So as a as a young person, when I, when I saw that, okay, this company actually really nurtures young people in a company, I felt that okay, if I joined them full time, I was confident that they would also continue to nurture.

Reuben  8:16  
And an intern as well, I mean, you are providing some nurturing to the company as well, because you're offering like a comlpletly new perpsective

Alyssa  8:22  
New ideas. Correct. Yeah

Reuben  8:24  
The dynamic ideas?

Alyssa  8:26  
For sure. Yeah. And then, yeah, so I think in even when I joined full time, I ended up being sort of like a peer mentor to the new the new interns that came in, we plan, some new ideas for brand awareness, recruitment, we create a whole new social media platform. And in terms of corporate events, we also got to do all these fun things in the company

Reuben  8:52  
Which again, you don't usually get with many corporate firms, because I feel like one big fear about stepping into the your first career path to the industry is that you're going to go into this company that's deep seated for the past 50 years, 60 years, and you're just going to be assigned like a singular role, you know, you're going to be a robot from 9 to 6, you kind of do the same thing here and again, but I mean, from what you've just mentioned, it seems like you had a really diverse experiences, responsibilities were given to you.

And I mean, obviously, you had to perform, right? I mean, when you perform, you get more opportunities. And I think that's a really big thing to note for people who are going to the industry, whether you're new startups, whether you're if companies, if you perform well, you're going to get more opportunities along the way. 

So I mean, speaking about all these different things, so you mentioned that you had to manage social media, you spoke a lot earlier as well, but relations with other people, managing your peers with this, some, perhaps challenges, key challenges that you faced along the way.

Alyssa  9:58  
Definitely, yes. So my career, I had to do more of reporting to a lot of presentation dates, a lot of documentations of note taking. Because I mean, when you join, when you work with the senior management, you, you end up taking the minutes. Yeah, by I found that after I did that for a whole year, okay, maybe about nine months. Yeah, I, I actually appreciated the experience because it made me more organised, it made me more clear of what was the objective of, of the work that I need to do. And I think working with the senior manager also made me realise that, you know, in the company, a lot of times when when your company grows bigger, and you're working level stuff, you you just do your job without knowing why you're doing it.

But I think in along the process, I had to do the different tedious work. It helped that I worked with senior management because the I really heard from them exactly what was the objective, and it made the world a lot easier. And more enjoyable. In fact, yeah. If you do I mean, just more fun note. If you do like the, the 16 personalities thing. For me, I am a I'm a P. So for the last item, so the P is more perspective, perceiving rather than judgmental. So to a certain extent, I'm a bit more go with the flow.

And to put in a nice way, I guess to put it in the not so not so nice way it would be that I tend to be more disorganised. Yeah. But I think working having to do these different tasks, the presentation decks meet me a lot more organised, structured in any way of my thinking. And it really helped in the long run, like right now when I'm in charge of managing some assets in the company or when I'm doing dashboards for our project management. Really started to appreciate how the so called mundane tasks in the past like even note taking could be so important. Now, when you when you want to present your ideas and your proposals.

Reuben  12:05  
I couldn't... I don't know why my mind gravitated to this. But in my head, all I could picture was Gordon Ramsay chopping, or learning to chop that same onion for years and years. I'm not sure if you've heard that story. I'm not sure whether it was Jamie Oliver or Gordon Ramsay. But apparently, a lot of the sous chefs that you see today those Michelin star chefs, right? They started off in the kitchen in a hot area with tons of noise during that same repetitive task, like just chopping learning to chop onions for like a solid year, two years, three years. Exactly. Exactly. Right. And that's because that helps to build your base, you know, it's it. And it's very beautiful that you shared that I'm sorry, again, that that's a completely different tangent from real estate to the kitchen. But no, it just completely resonate. Yeah, exactly. I completely resonate with what you mentioned. So you're about to say something else as well, about challenges.

Alyssa  13:00  
Yeah, but anyway, the whole garlic, onion thing, I think. I mean, I can, I think that's a perfect example. Perfect illustration. I guess the second challenge would be well, people will be people, but when I see people is not not liking people, but rather, in the in the job that you do, you will always be put in a situation where you work in a team of people whose working styles are different, whose personalities are different, whose positions are different.

So joining the company as a as an entry stuff, but yet, being exposed to people in, well I guess higher positions, because I worked with my management also meant that I had to often present ideas or push through objectives with people who are on a much higher position than me. And I still remember there was once during a meeting, when I had to present on a proposal. There was another individual of a very high level, who asked me, have I done any projects before? Have I done this before?

And then in that whole awkward silence, I said no. And then the person said if you've not done this before, how... how sure are you that it would work? Yeah, and I mean, this was someone who, who has done countless of past projects before, someone who has been experienced in this field. So I guess I would say the challenge will be to, to communicate effectively. And sometimes even after you communicate effectively. Maybe just based on on the the workings of the person, you may just never get a common consensus and sometimes you just have to live with that or something. When when you can't, no matter how many ways you go about it, the answer is still no, then maybe you just have to maybe just have to accept them and find some other alternative to, to to complete the work.

Reuben  15:18  
You know, it's quite interesting that when you mentioned just now about how you're at the meeting, and that person asked you for the first time, if you know, you had done this before, you said, No, have you heard of the Dunning Kruger effect?

Alyssa  15:31  
You can, you can elaborate.

Reuben  15:33  
So okay, the Dunning Kruger effect, right is, and I'm just quoting Google here, people who are just starting out with very little experience, tend to have like a ton of confidence, right. And then it's like a little bell curve. So as they begin to get more experienced that confidence kind of dips. So think of it as like a graph, right? So it starts off with a lot of confidence. And along the way, as you get more experienced the confidence dips, because you understand that there are just so many factors in play, you might be pinpointed for certain things, things can

Alyssa  16:02  
You don't want to shake the boat, or based on those past rejections, you feel like there's no point to try anymore.

Reuben  16:08  
Exactly, exactly. But the effect is quite interesting, because as you begin to get more experiences along the way, at the end of the other skill, once obviously, you're much more experienced, then your confidence explodes again, so it returns to its initial standpoint. And, but the the benefit for, I think, having that higher level confidence is just that you're able to put more things out.

So even if you're putting out wrong things. Let's say you gave an idea, right? And you were just so maybe, like, passionate about the idea. And it could be a completely like, idea of the wrong tangent, it might not work out. But there will always be aspects of the idea which could be utilised by the more experienced staff to work on the ultimate solution. Right. So I think that's also one of the reasons why new people coming into the industry is so important, because they have that high level of confidence.

So I mean, again, this is just a thought on the side. But you know, going back to what you mentioned earlier about how it's hard to you know, not everyone will, will speak to you on an equal level. Not everyone will resonate with you with similar thoughts. I think as long as you're willing to step out of your comfort zone and to share those thoughts, even if those thoughts are blown away, rejected, not accepted, at least you know, that you, you did your best to put yourself out there. And if those things are accepted, then you know, in that sense contributed to a massive in this case, million dollar billion dollar company.

Alyssa  17:44  
Yeah. And I think also, I think what you brought out about how I know at least if you, at least you put your your ideas out there. And you you accept it, I think I think it was so sometimes it's, it's, besides that is also to, to know that, you know, sometimes his ideas may not be accepted here. But who knows, maybe if you meet another individual, that person might actually resonate with the idea. Yeah, and what was? Yeah, at least, do you have these ideas?

Because a lot of times, you know, with, with the theory that you just said, I think we're often after you've been, I mean, this is something that I want on my, on my collection previously, you know, sometimes if you're in the same industry for too long, you're the same people for too long, then, you know, your ideas just become a smaller segment, or you are you no longer I mean, you no longer strive to, to try new things.

Yeah. So, I mean, maybe it's a small, small pat on the back to say that, you know, it's better to have to have ideas. And then then and then to go back to the normal ways, because, I mean, eventually, other people are going to come in with new ideas. And, and you know, you You never know when that idea could be a first mover in the in the in the industry.

Reuben  19:11  
So well put. Yeah, I completely agree with you that. Actually, I mean, since we're on the topic of challenges, right, this this question kind of popped to mind along the way. I mean, obviously, at the start, you mentioned that you had no inclination or the other, you might have had a little bit of interest in real estate. This wasn't something that you were prepared to go into. And neither was literature, but I mean, obviously, it was real estate, because it had more promise in that sense to yourself, obviously. And, but the question I have is: do you ever feel sometimes that... man, what am I doing here? What am I doing in real estate, like do you have another dream or goal that you wanted to achieve? And is this potentially a challenge to you at this point?

Alyssa  20:01  
I think during, actually it's quite timely that you asked me this because, you know, during the whole COVID period where work was really drastically affected people had to work from home. I think it also gave me a lot more time to think about, I mean, where I was, and what I wanted to do. Yeah. And then, actually, interestingly, during the COVID period was the time that I started to do a small side hobby. So I started to make clay earrings.

And then, this was birthed from the ideas of how I've always wanted to, I mean, for me, I've always like, art-related hobbies. So be it crocheting, be it embroidery. Baking. Yeah. and the like. So. So I guess, to me, while real estate seems to be a very, actually a very diverse industry, where I mean, you, you can earn a lot of money. There's so many things you can do with it. I think, for me, I also wanted to explore other passions, like art, yeah, so how I actually balanced out these things is, well, I guess, when it comes to work, I feel that you should still be doing I mean, as much as it's possible, to do something that, that you enjoy doing, means it has to be something that uses your skill set allows you to learn at the same time also, and let's see, I mean, we've always, you know, try not to take your work back home with you.

And I find it very true, because, you know, if life is only about work, then where's the time to, to go in other areas. And for me, I found that in, in my clay hobby. So I said that to, to make earrings I started to do a small business online, pick up some social media skills. Yeah. And ultimately, all this work that I do. I know that it's not just not just for my own personal finances, but to, to use some of these finances to share it with people who may not have the may not have the means to provide for themselves. Or to to, to bless them with need the means to to garner daily lives.

Reuben  22:30  
Right? Well, I don't know how you how you keep doing this. But this keeps leading on to my next question, obviously, I have all these questions here. You know, it's interesting, because I was just about to ask you. So I had this idea that, you know, in Singapore, the education system is such that you have to make choices really early on, right? At primary 6, you go to your PSLE. And then bam! Next thing, you know, you have to choose which secondary school you're going to be at.

And then at secondary 2, I'm not sure if it's still the same now. But you get this streaming thing. So yeah, you go into like pure sciences, triple sciences, arts, or humanities. Right. And, and you're making this decision. And like, what, 14-15 years old,

Alyssa  23:18  
It's quite scary, right? To make a decision that may last you through your entire life through retirement.

Reuben  23:24  
Exactly. And at that point, it might not seem so scary, because you're just like, Oh, you know, I have to do it. I'll just go and do it. Yeah. And then your parents like, Oh, you know, do this, do that. But you don't actually realise that, because the education system is so deep seated with your potential career path. That choice could, you know, in a sense, dictate what you will be working at where you will be working at, in the years to come. So my question was actually, to ask you what a fulfilling job or career would mean to you. And I was actually going to talk about this particular Japanese philosophy - Ikigai.

Have you heard of this?

Alyssa  24:08  
 No, do you want to share more?

Reuben  24:11  
Yeah, again, I'm bringing up garlic stories and bringing out Dunning Kruger effects. So just. Yeah, why not? I mean, it sounds like it's food, but it's not food. So Ikigai is essentially, is a combination of four things. So it's the Japanese philosophy. It's like the reason for being right. And basically, it's like a Venn diagram where it combines these four factors. The first factor is to do what you love. The second factor is to do what you are good at. And the third is to do what the world needs. And the fourth is to do what you can be paid for. So if you can find something right in the middle of what you love, what you're good at what the world needs and what you can be paid for, then that is essentially Ikigai. Right?

And so that to me, He has always been like a founding philosophy of the work that I do. So when I do a certain work, I always ask myself, do I fulfill those four things. And it's obviously super hard, right? I mean, especially in Singapore, when finances are important, everything is expensive here. At the end of the day, finance becomes perhaps, that core factor, the number one thing that drives us to do our jobs. And so because of that, we kind of lose track of things we love, you know, things we're good at, and what the world needs, and whether we just do the job. And because it pays as well. 

And the one you mentioned earlier, I think a lot of people, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I mean, it's, it's an incredible, in a sense coping mechanism, if you will, like you do work, you know, so work is on one end, you know, where you make the money. And then outside of that, to perhaps preserve your sanity to allow you to explore the things to enjoy the things you have your side hobbies, like, you mentioned earlier, making clay earrings, and you know, arts, pottery, all that kind of stuff.

So, yeah, that was just, you know, the question I had, but again, I'm sorry, this is a massive tangent. But the question that I was gonna, gonna ask is, do you feel... do you think that it's hard for, I guess Singaporeans to find their ideal job, once they get out, you know, of their education was to get out of university, for example, once you get our diploma, do you think that it's a really hard thing to find something that you enjoy? 

Alyssa  26:40  
Well, I think, I mean, when people talk about ideal jobs, I feel that they're often this ideal, or this idea of, of an ideal comes from maybe family background, from how do you know, if your parents were, maybe of a high profession, then you aspire - okay! When you grew up, then you want to be like them, or sometimes the inverse, if you grew up in a family, which was more hard pressed and be more difficult than when you grew up, you also feel that okay, I need to find a job. That is very, very well paying, and very prestigious, so that you come out of this poverty cycle, or what not. But for me, I do think that there is a way to, to so called find an ideal job in... actually I want to go back to your to this philosophy of how do you pronounce again? Tempura?

Reuben  27:32  

Alyssa  27:35  

Reuben  27:37  
I wish we'd been doing like a lot of videos with my Japanese YouTuber friend Ghib Ojisan

Alyssa  27:42  
Oh, Ghib, yeah

Reuben  27:43  
He will have some some interesting things to say.

Alyssa  27:46  
Would like to hear.

Reuben  27:48  
Yeah. Yeah.

Alyssa  27:49  
So I mean I resonate with that philosophy, because to me, I feel that all of us, we grew up having special. I mean, we have we grew up with different types of talents and abilities. So some people, I mean, growing up, they may be very good at sports related. 

But you know, and that kind of hits that first circle, the first quadrant of in terms of doing what you can do. Right, I guess the other part about responding to your thing in terms of what the world needs? I think you mentioned that, I think to some extent... well, a lot of companies, my company included have been moving more towards CSR. So you know we do corporate social responsibility, where we, you know, at the end, when a company earns money, and grows our wealth, we want to make sure that the society isn't left behind.

Yeah, I think even as an individual when you're doing your work, you know, work does not only need to be... work in itself, but even a person who maybe studies architecture could use his knowledge to bless a friend who maybe need some help in home furnishings, or ID, you know, like, the thing that we study or the thing that we work in, can be used to, to help others if we are intentional on trying to do so.

Or let's see, we, we study I mean, I mean, people often say that, Oh, no, you need to be a doctor. You need to be a lawyer. You need to be Oh, no, I'm not stereotyping because I have so many lawyer doctor friends but a lot of time people think they need to do a job desk very, very... help me find the word Reuben.

Reuben  29:35  
In tuned with society's expectations?

Alyssa  29:39  
What they think would benefit society the most they feel that you need to be doing these kind of jobs to to help others but then I guess now that I'm in real estate I realised that you know, from the get go. A basic home is actually a luxury, and you know when you study about land planning, I realised that Hey, you know being in Singapore is such a blessing because of the way that our towns are planned, you know, our transportation accessibility, and then you start to think that okay, how can I make a difference to people who don't get these luxuries?

And, you know, if there's opportunity in the future I might go to another country and see how can help in their planning in the land, you know, to make sure people are not people who are, who are not educated in these areas can also learn these. Yeah, so I guess responding to what the world needs, I feel like that there is something that can be achieved in a job. Yeah. And I think for sure. You don't want to work for free? Because you need you need money to live.

To buy onions and garlics to chop.

Yeah, we do for sure we need to buy tempuras, we need to, yeah. So I do believe that in your ideal job, you, you should be paid what you deserve. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we we undervalue our contributions sometimes we think oh because we are, we are, especially for young people, we think that because we are entry level, you know, we are we are here to learn that the company can pay lesser, I mean, to some extent, it's, it's okay to have this thinking that, okay, we go in to learn but at the same time after a certain point, after you start to really contribute your ideas, you start to really work in a company, I think it's important that you are you're paid what you deserve.

Yeah, I think this this is something that I mean, how work should be rewarded. Yeah, to me, I think that that's something that everyone could can hope for. Although there's not there's not a luxury or privilege than some some countries. Yeah, but I think in Singapore, we, thankfully we

Reuben  32:02  
We have the whole system of  meritocracy right

Alyssa  32:05  
And the whole wage ceiling. I cannot remember the last one that you said that. I mean, no. The four things, right?

Reuben  32:16  
What the world needs, what you're good at, what you can be paid for and what you love.

Alyssa  32:20  
Oh what you love. Okay. So I guess, yeah, to end like for this particular question. I think for all of us, we want to, we want to do what we love. I think that's something that, you know, most of us when we when we come out of school, we we hope to do that, I will see that not everyone has the privilege to do that. So maybe I will change, change it slightly, whereby it's still possible to find your ideal job. If you like what you do. Yeah. Because unless you may not do what you like. I mean, sometimes you have the aspiration to do it. But not everyone has that blessing. But when you start to like what you do, I think I think you end up completing the whole idea of job finding.

Reuben  33:07  
Yeah, definitely finding the good points is a little things, you know, that you if you begin to slowly enjoy those things, if you learn to enjoy those things, just makes things a lot easier, especially motivation. Okay, I'm just gonna ask one, or rather my second last question.

So this is essentially on people jumping straight from education into, let's say, their careers. Right. So I know of most most of my friends, you know, when we were younger, they would finish their diploma. And so they finished education degrees, and immediately, there'll be, you know, out there hunting for a job, you know, trying to get something secured as soon as possible.

Of course, you know, I know people who have taken gap years, you know, they take one year off we go traveling, and just to kind of understand what they want to do. Do you have perhaps advice for graduates at this point?

Do you think it's important that they secure a job immediately? Or they should take some time off? What is the main idea here? To find, let's say meaningful career?

Alyssa  34:22  
Well, I think for me, I would say that for for a young person who, who has the opportunity to wait before finding a new job, I would strongly encourage them to do so. The reason being is I mean, what I what you shared earlier, most of the time even at the very nice young age of 16-17. To to know exactly what job you're called to do, or to go into a job, the thing you'll be there for a long time for that. You really won't know until you've been there for five years. A good few years.

So if you have the money, if you have the privilege to, to wait it out to consider some options to try out things before you really join a job full time, I would strongly recommend that. But of course, if you don't get the opportunity to take a break, or to try out new things, and you end up joining a company, honestly, I would say that that's perfectly fine. Because I mean along the week, even if you work there for 3, 4, even 5 years, and you're in your mid 20s, I don't think you'll be definitely sure that this is a career or this industry that you stay for the rest of your life.

So I mean, either way, whether you you get you you choose to take a break and get to explore different different jobs, different opportunities before you find your so called ideal one. I'll say that even for those who may jump right into a job, you may or may not find that could be your long term job in the future. And that's perfectly fine. I guess. I guess that's the whole that's the whole thing about being young. You know, when you're young you have you have the luxury of or rather the energy, you have the energy to try new things, or do you have the courage to to quit a job when you when you realise that okay, this is not somewhere that I foresee myself in the long run and you and despite trying to like what you do you really don't like it?

I think that you still have that. You still have that age, that time to to go into a new industry. Yeah, in fact, anything. Even I mean, it's like people have like a midlife crisis, or the quarterlife crisis, I think, I think as we grow older, as we mature, we, our we become more sure of what we're good at, we become more strong what we intend to achieve. And I think with these changes, as we grew up we will eventually gravitate towards the career that aligns with these purposes and have a life

Reuben  37:13  
Very well put. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing about, you know, you're young, you still have plasticity in your brain. You have. And when people talk about energy, it's not just physical energy, you have a lot of mental energy. You haven't been beaten down that often. So you used to have all that drive, you know? Well, on that note, maybe I just asked you the final question for today Alyssa.

Do you perhaps have any tips for pre-graduates, right, so I know that you actually started. So you got with this company because of an internship that you had? And after you graduated, you're like, Okay, you know, I'm just gonna stick with this company. Do you think, perhaps internships or even perhaps even working with freelance platforms, like things like that, do you think it's important for graduates to address this while they are still in their education career? Or would you advise just completely focusing on education, because I know, at that point, when you're doing your degree, you just have so many things going on? Right?

Alyssa  38:12  
I think going back to about to sharing about how we can, I mean, if we have the opportunity to just try out new things, I still resonate with, with really going out going to, I mean, for my company, we...  I would say we're not a big MNC but yet, there are because there's more flatter hierarchy, allow me to do many things, I think for many smaller companies, you will get the bandwidth and the opportunity to to get more hands on opportunities.

So I will say yes, I think I think if you are if you have time, and you and you don't have the financial burden, just go and try new things. In fact, before I before I went to this internship, I was doing a lot of other side hustles So I joined the F&B company to do shaved ice so and then I joined the ice cream shop to just just learn coffee baristerring  and I think doing all these things, I mean, in the long run some people think that these are just to do for pocket money, but for me I feel that these experiences made me realise that I actually really love talking to people. I really love the serv- that the area of the service industry.

Yeah, so even in my current job where I am, I will say that I'm more frontend, so so taking on jobs that that seem completely unrelated to your cause, has its benefits. I think it trains you in independence. It trains you to be I mean, when you talk about the food, going back to food right, to scoop ice cream daily, or to make that perfect snow cone. I think... it comes of discipline, it comes with practice and these mindsets that you have, of course will be very useful when you when you go into the, into the real, real work. And you have to do repetitive work when you have to be disciplined.

Yeah, I think, of course I would say the more things you try, the more you know what you like and don't like, yeah, in fact when you go into your new job, I would still want, I would still encourage young people not to see that as your end, because sometimes if you hold so tightly to your job, you find yourself having to conform to how that company is, or how the people are, because you feel at risk of losing your job. But I think when you just be yourself, and if you've ideas you share it, if you think that things can be improved, just do it. Because you never know if let's say, if your company is one that embraces change, they'd accept it. Or they would take on these ideas, and if they don't, then you'd realise that hey maybe this company may not be for you.

Reuben 41:27
Very nice. So essentially make sure you have a list of life priorities and don't let work dictate that. Rather, make sure that your life priorities are in line with the work that you do.

Alyssa 41:38
Yes, you put it very well.

Reuben 41:42
Well Alyssa, thank you so much for your time again. I know you've a couple of meetings coming up, so I won't hold you back anymore. Thanks for joining us, I look forward to talking to you soon.

Alyssa 42:52
Thanks again Reuben.

Reuben 41:57
Once again, that was the very lovely Alyssa. As we discussed the journey of navigating your very first job. Now for more real estate content, you can hop onto And if you have any queries, comments or suggestions, I'd love to hear more at Once again, my name is Reuben Dhanaraj, thanks for joining me today - and I'll see you guys at the next podcast.

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